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Post by Gamerstable_Eric on Nov 8, 2015 14:32:25 GMT -5
***Spoilers*** We will discuss regular episodes as well as role-play dramas.
Please proceed at your own risk.
Want to talk about a past episode?
Tell us your take on a topic we've done, or tell us where we got it wrong. Anything you want to discuss, we will.
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Post by KiloGex on Nov 20, 2015 16:42:47 GMT -5
On the paladin topic, I was really hoping that you guys would reference this article that was floating around a couple of weeks ago (http://creativerepository.blogspot.com/2015/11/shining-light-new-take-on-paladins.html). I really did like how you guys looked at every aspect of the paladin though, and brought up the fact that they don't necessarily have to be deity-based divine warriors. I think - just like the druid who gets their power straight from nature - the paladin can gain their abilities directly from the source as well.
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Post by Gamerstable_Eric on Nov 25, 2015 17:10:28 GMT -5
I think - just like the druid who gets their power straight from nature - the paladin can gain their abilities directly from the source as well. That's actually how I prefer to play it. My paladin gets his abilities through his devotion to vengeance. I'm actually thinking about abandoning the class when he gets his revenge.
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Post by KiloGex on Nov 25, 2015 19:43:35 GMT -5
I'm actually thinking about abandoning the class when he gets his revenge. That sounds pretty wicked. Besse's first toon was a paladin and our adventure was his first time out of his kingdom. He realized that not everything is black and white, and we were actually in the process of maneuvering him into Grey Guard... Until the rogue killed him.
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Post by KiloGex on Dec 3, 2015 8:59:52 GMT -5
I'm totally with you Gamerstable_Eric , I had to give up videogames a while back because I found it was either play them or be real-life productive. And you know what? I really don't miss them. I catch a playthrough video every once in a while for a game I'm really interested in, but other than that I just don't have the time (or money) to play any of the current games. Personally too, I'm over crunch in my RPGs. It's the reason why I was over 3.x and why I'm over Pathfinder, and why I'm looking forward to much to finally diving into D&D 5E. Side note: Fiasco is an awesome diceless system. True, you do use dice to keep track of the positive/negative outcomes, but really you could use coins or stones or really anything. Double side note: Tell xb0shi3x and Shawn to give Supernatural another go! The original writing staff only planned on the first 5 seasons, culminating with the whole Lucifer thing. Once that ended, they planned on the series ending, but the CW was like "Are you crazy?! This show is really popular!" The next few seasons were.... Meh. But the current couple of seasons are great! Season 9 is where it started to gain traction again, but the story might be a little confusing to just pick up there. I'd suggest grabbing it against with season 10 (though season 8, episode 4 is one of my favorite of all time).
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Post by Gamerstable_Eric on Dec 7, 2015 23:04:32 GMT -5
I'm totally with you Gamerstable_Eric , I had to give up videogames a while back because I found it was either play them or be real-life productive. And you know what? I really don't miss them. I catch a playthrough video every once in a while for a game I'm really interested in, but other than that I just don't have the time (or money) to play any of the current games. Personally too, I'm over crunch in my RPGs. It's the reason why I was over 3.x and why I'm over Pathfinder, and why I'm looking forward to much to finally diving into D&D 5E. Side note: Fiasco is an awesome diceless system. True, you do use dice to keep track of the positive/negative outcomes, but really you could use coins or stones or really anything. Double side note: Tell xb0shi3x and Shawn to give Supernatural another go! The original writing staff only planned on the first 5 seasons, culminating with the whole Lucifer thing. Once that ended, they planned on the series ending, but the CW was like "Are you crazy?! This show is really popular!" The next few seasons were.... Meh. But the current couple of seasons are great! Season 9 is where it started to gain traction again, but the story might be a little confusing to just pick up there. I'd suggest grabbing it against with season 10 (though season 8, episode 4 is one of my favorite of all time). I love Fiasco. I don't think any coaxing would convince them to give Supernatural go.
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Post by KiloGex on Dec 10, 2015 17:05:23 GMT -5
Good and bad metagaming examples... Had one group that ran into a couple of ogres, and one player - totally OOC - said that they are vulnerable to light, so he spent a good while attempting to expose them to lanterns and such. Eventually had to (out of have because I didn't quite know how to handle it otherwise) explain that ogres actually aren't vulnerable to light. Apparently he had read the Hobbit one too many times. Good though was when the group was fighting some skeletons, and the players knew they that only bludgeoning damage could really hurt them, but they waited until they had attempted to injure them a few times, and the monk ( rockthegolem) had managed to slam away with his fists with great effectiveness, before switching over to hammers and such (which one character actually stole off a dead enemy, so bonus points there).
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Post by Gamerstable_Eric on Dec 16, 2015 9:31:09 GMT -5
Good and bad metagaming examples... Had one group that ran into a couple of ogres, and one player - totally OOC - said that they are vulnerable to light, so he spent a good while attempting to expose them to lanterns and such. Eventually had to (out of have because I didn't quite know how to handle it otherwise) explain that ogres actually aren't vulnerable to light. Apparently he had read the Hobbit one too many times. Good though was when the group was fighting some skeletons, and the players knew they that only bludgeoning damage could really hurt them, but they waited until they had attempted to injure them a few times, and the monk ( rockthegolem) had managed to slam away with his fists with great effectiveness, before switching over to hammers and such (which one character actually stole off a dead enemy, so bonus points there). Very nice. Metagaming wrong, classic. The Hobbit/LOTR is a perfect example (as is Star Wars) where meta-knowledge can enhance or enrich the experience of playing in the setting, but also a double-edged sword if you as a GM feel compelled to adhere to canon.
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Post by revcofe on Dec 19, 2015 20:28:29 GMT -5
~~WARNING! POTENTIAL SPOILERS ABOUND!~~ This post is about the Shadowrun AP. IF you have not listened to it all the way through, stop reading and go listen. If you haven’t listened to it twice… you might want to.
If you’re still reading, then you have only yourself to blame.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still here? Awesome. Let’s talk about the Dragon Variation. I know there were some questions I had… some of which I have answers to, some of which I don’t. And the answers I have may not be right… but I was dying to talk about it. So here goes:
1) Who are the narrators?
One Narrator usually can be taken at face value. But a second, biased and personal narrator with personal anecdotes and emotional responses to the story… well that warrants some exploration. (Apex is confirmed as N2, and Tommy as N1.)
Best theories so far: A) Eric (N1) is the “normal” gm/narrator. The second voice (N2) is Apex. (Preferred theory)
Rationale: N2 knows lots of personal details about Lilly, AG, and Talisman and Tommy. He is not a member of the team in the Amoniel missions. Also… he seems pretty enlightened during the talk with Lilly.
B) N1 and N2 are Kidora (or someone associated with the ichor/monolith project) and Apex. The narration they give is a datalog or report of some kind.
Rationale: Throughout the series, N2 interrupts N1 in very direct ways, as if N1 recognizes his Co-Narrator. When Lilly wakes up, there are two people present – one confirmed to be Apex. The unidentified voice says, “We’re losing her!” While that could be a matter of personal concern (we’ll discuss that below), it could be a professional one: losing one of the subjects of the experiment.
Problems: It seems that Lilly is being rescued. The shaking and “Wake Up!” calls make more sense in the dream if they are occurring outside of it. Furthermore, it seems that the two people present are trying to get her out of the vat.
2) Who is dreaming? Best Theories: A) Lilly. Rationale: The dream begins immediately upon her leaving her post at the Humanis Job. She wakes up, the dream ends. The climax of the story hinges on her and her family.
Problems: N2 doesn’t seem to reflect her inner self or perspective.
B) Jointly - Lilly, Nightfall, Talisman, Blockade, Frenzy and Fastback (and possibly AG). (Preferred Theory) Rationale: It is established pre-Humanis Job that the Ichor/Monuments draw their subjects into a hive-mind. More than Lilly was captured: “We never got out 10 years ago.” The dream discloses secrets that each of the above dreamers would not have willingly shared, including affiliations that even N2 was unaware of.
Open questions: How did Apex/AG escape with an out of commission Tommy, when the rest of the team did not? Or Did Apex abscond with Tommy, but NOT AG? Or, OR... Did Apex get out alone?
3) “This Flesh is Your Flesh.” Best Theory: Lofwyr gave Amoniel (his daughter) to Hestaby for… reasons. Hestaby is repaying Lofwyr by offering back his Granddaughter, Lilly.
4) What really happened to Tommy? (Confirmed: Tommy escaped the "dream" and was actively trying to wake the other dreamers. Apex was the first he got out.) Best Theories: A) Tommy was incapacitated and put in the goo.
B) Tommy was carried away by Apex during the Humanis Job.
C) Tommy was already corrupted by the ichor pre-Humanis Job by Voix.
Paradox only kinda addressed: We’re led to believe that Tommy “died” in the Humanis Job, but Nightfall, Voix, and Apex talk about the tragedy of Tommy’s “apparent overdose.” Is “seeing the Face of Ousir” a BTL that Voix activated for Nightfall and Tommy during the Humanis Job, and is that the “overdose” referred to?
---
I got more thoughts, but this is too many already.
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Post by Gamerstable_Eric on Dec 21, 2015 9:30:58 GMT -5
Those are some awesome theories Rev! I want to hear your "more thoughts".
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Post by revcofe on Dec 21, 2015 10:48:48 GMT -5
How much is real? It's all well and good to chalk the whole thing up to being a fantasy dreamt up in Lilly's mind. Her father's words "What's more likely..." seem to point in that direction. You could just stop there, case closed.
That's the least interesting possibility. But if you've bought in to the "collective dream" (matrix) theory, then the question of what's real gets considerably more challenging. Since the dreams would (likely) draw from the minds of the dreamers, much of the goings on could be presumed to be true.
Frenzy's, Nightfall's, and Talisman's secret affiliations would likely be real. The scrolling data Warchief humiliates the team with is likely real. Safe houses, contacts, pass phrases - all real. (These are all confirmed false)
In fact, the question of what isn't real is probably more fruitful.
Corrupted Dragon Eggs, and Cybered-out Dragons A Petrified Dragon egg is... curious. "But whose egg is it?" No one answers. It's Guarded by an Oni (spirit), just after we encounter an Orc-Variant Oni. It is probably a good assumption that Kidora is Asian - Japanese, would be my best guess. Did all 4 (egg, Oni, other Oni, researcher) travel to the US together?
Or is this all just a dream-born red-herring?
Cyber Dragon: Is this the intended vessel for Ousir? (Confirmed) Is this a different attempt toward the same end as the petrified egg?
I'll just leave that there for a moment...
What's up with this Ousir stuff? Best theories: A) It's a Voix-invented myth to build a cult around. If so, his appearance to Nightfall and Tommy deliberately sabotages their mission. B) It's an actual deep-resonance mind (Confirmed) that has been moving Voix, Lofwyr, Kidora, and who knows how many others to get him into meat-space.
In either case, Voix ostensibly amasses droves of children... perhaps those with Matrix potential in the same way that Lofwyr is gathering children with magical potential. If so, then the Sabangeur (spelling?!?!!) and Saeder-Krupp aren't in reality in competition... but might in fact be working on two halves of the same plan - which would explain the sabotage of the Humanis Job by Ousir.
How can someone be an expert in something so old that even Dragons don't know how to operate it? Best theories: A) You can't. The Endominels are just part of the fiction of the dreams. (Most Probable, but not very interesting.)
B) You have spent an awful lot of time in archaeology in something that the dragons weren't aware of until recently. (Possible, but unlikely and uninteresting)
C) You are one of, or have been in contact with, the people who built the thing. (Least probable, but most interesting). Hive mind technology. Uploaded consciousness. Perhaps the supposed experts are the first folks in ages to be assimilated into the hive mind, and just like all of the monolith drones, they are playing the role being fed to them. In this case, it is conceivable that even Lofwyr is the unwitting pawn of an outside force.
Star Gates? The Endominels are a major plot point, in the sense that they are a McGuffin the major players are chasing... but how do they relate to the monoliths and the ichor?
Best Theory: The gates are powered by magical essence siphoned off of awakened metahumans who are kept in a dream state. Why children? They're the easiest prey... also, if aging is slowed (not stopped) while in the vats, you'll get more milage out of a child than an adult.
How do the gates relate to Ousir? ...I got nothing.
Lilly's Parentage This is a particularly tough one, I think. On the one hand, Lilly's parents were already established to be super important people. So it isn't as if she needs to inflate their position to give them clout. On the OTHER hand...
The story as it played out makes Lilly an important person. If the plan for 5,000 years was that Amoniel's daughter would be offered to Lofwyr, it gives the emotional distance between mother and daughter meaning. It isn't Lilly's fault her mother doesn't accept her... it's the machinations of Dragons that broke her family up.
Best theory: Sorry Lilly. You just have a broken home. In fact, you're on this job because of Tailgunner and Nightfall (by way of Voix), not the other way around.
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Post by Gamerstable_Eric on Dec 23, 2015 17:23:37 GMT -5
Who are the narrators? One Narrator usually can be taken at face value. But a second, biased and personal narrator with personal anecdotes and emotional responses to the story… well that warrants some exploration. (Apex is confirmed as N2, and Tommy as N1.)
Best theories so far: A) Eric (N1) is the “normal” gm/narrator. The second voice (N2) is Apex. (Preferred theory)
Rationale: N2 knows lots of personal details about Lilly, AG, and Talisman and Tommy. He is not a member of the team in the Amoniel missions. Also… he seems pretty enlightened during the talk with Lilly.
B) N1 and N2 are Kidora (or someone associated with the ichor/monolith project) and Apex. The narration they give is a datalog or report of some kind.
Rationale: Throughout the series, N2 interrupts N1 in very direct ways, as if N1 recognizes his Co-Narrator. When Lilly wakes up, there are two people present – one confirmed to be Apex. The unidentified voice says, “We’re losing her!” While that could be a matter of personal concern (we’ll discuss that below), it could be a professional one: losing one of the subjects of the experiment.
Problems: It seems that Lilly is being rescued. The shaking and “Wake Up!” calls make more sense in the dream if they are occurring outside of it. Furthermore, it seems that the two people present are trying to get her out of the vat.
It is hard to convey with just voices but yes (as was revealed in the recap episode) Tommy was N1 and Apex N2. In the original scripting of the narration I had some back and forth (bickering) between the narrators, but in the end I felt that that would be too much of a departure from the way I wanted N1 to be portrayed and took away from N2’s unique perspective.
Who is dreaming? Best Theories: A) Lilly. Rationale: The dream begins immediately upon her leaving her post at the Humanis Job. She wakes up, the dream ends. The climax of the story hinges on her and her family.
Problems: N2 doesn’t seem to reflect her inner self or perspective.
B) Jointly - Lilly, Nightfall, Talisman, Blockade, Frenzy and Fastback (and possibly AG). (Preferred Theory) Rationale: It is established pre-Humanis Job that the Ichor/Monuments draw their subjects into a hive-mind. More than Lilly was captured: “We never got out 10 years ago.” The dream discloses secrets that each of the above dreamers would not have willingly shared, including affiliations that even N2 was unaware of.
Open questions: How did Apex/AG escape with an out of commission Tommy, when the rest of the team did not? Or Did Apex abscond with Tommy, but NOT AG? Or, OR... Did Apex get out alone?
This was intentionally left open, but I wanted the players to feel like they had a stake in the story. I prefer to think that, in an effort to free them, Tommy had to link them all in one dream. Where this broke down was when they turned on him (when he appeared in orc form). He and Apex then realized that they had to try and get them out separately. Lilly was the link to all of them and if they got her out first she could make it easier to get the rest.
“This Flesh is Your Flesh.” Best Theory: Lofwyr gave Amoniel (his daughter) to Hestaby for… reasons. Hestaby is repaying Lofwyr by offering back his Granddaughter, Lilly. On the money. Aman’iel was an immortal elf. In Shadowrun that means that she has a dragon ancestor. She was “gifted” to Hestaby as an infant. The reveal in the last dread scene is that Lofwyr is Aman’iel’s real father, thus Lilly is his granddaughter. The motivation for this is left open, but I like that Aman’iel knew that Lofwyr desired her for his plans. She decided to offer up her own daughter instead. The blood is the same, thus the gift… or “rare opening” move by Hestaby is valid.
What really happened to Tommy? (Confirmed: Tommy escaped the "dream" and was actively trying to wake the other dreamers. Apex was the first he got out.) Best Theories: A) Tommy was incapacitated and put in the goo. B) Tommy was carried away by Apex during the Humanis Job. C) Tommy was already corrupted by the ichor pre-Humanis Job by Voix.
Yeah, this was answered in the recap episode. When Tommy (in Jenna Mayfair form) says that he got out because of a “power failure” he wasn’t talking about the vault under Mount Shasta. He was talking about the vat in the real world. But the dream immediately took over and his meaning was muddled.
Paradox only kinda addressed: We’re led to believe that Tommy “died” in the Humanis Job, but Nightfall, Voix, and Apex talk about the tragedy of Tommy’s “apparent overdose.” Is “seeing the Face of Ousir” a BTL that Voix activated for Nightfall and Tommy during the Humanis Job, and is that the “overdose” referred to?
I LOVE THIS. I wish I had thought of it.
Corrupted Dragon Eggs, and Cybered-out Dragons A Petrified Dragon egg is... curious. "But whose egg is it?" No one answers. It's Guarded by an Oni (spirit), just after we encounter an Orc-Variant Oni. It is probably a good assumption that Kidora is Asian - Japanese, would be my best guess. Did all 4 (egg, Oni, other Oni, researcher) travel to the US together?
Or is this all just a dream-born red-herring?
The dragon egg plot thread was mostly a red herring, but it was also an Easter egg (pun intended). The story that Eight tells Frenzy about Requin Tigre is actually what happened to the group of characters from the previous game-night referred to in the recap episode. It was a bit of a shout out to that group of players who weren’t able to participate in the production.
Cyber Dragon: Is this the intended vessel for Ousir? (Confirmed) Is this a different attempt toward the same end as the petrified egg?
A plot line that never played out was the concept of rebirth of Usir. I had contingencies in place depending on how things turned out. The cyber dragon possession would have been a giant distraction. The group would have fought it while the real rebirth happened. Usir wanted Nightfall, his “most beloved”. Tommy was the herald to announce his rebirth and get Nightfall there. The idea was that Usir would “possess” Nightfall and then mate with Tommy to birth a super-being. Lofwyr’s plan was similar. Only he thought that the entity calling himself Usir would possess the cybered-dragon and he would mate it with Aman’iel (later Lilly) to conceive a super-being under his control.
What's up with this Ousir stuff? Best theories: A) It's a Voix-invented myth to build a cult around. If so, his appearance to Nightfall and Tommy deliberately sabotages their mission. B) It's an actual deep-resonance mind (Confirmed) that has been moving Voix, Lofwyr, Kidora, and who knows how many others to get him into meat-space.
In either case, Voix ostensibly amasses droves of children... perhaps those with Matrix potential in the same way that Lofwyr is gathering children with magical potential. If so, then the Sabangeur (spelling?!?!!) and Saeder-Krupp aren't in reality in competition... but might in fact be working on two halves of the same plan - which would explain the sabotage of the Humanis Job by Ousir.
Usir was a mortal decker who called himself Hazzard (a former PC in a past game group). He uploaded himself into the matrix. When Aman’iel discusses Kudora’s perfecting the process from a being called Quicksilver, that is in reference to the 1st edition adventure “Imago”. Hazzard refined the process and did it before Kudora, but no one found out about it.
The first step of Usir coming back was to eliminate anyone attached to his former life. This was the deeper plot discussed in the recap episode. The PCs were pursuing these stolen dragon eggs and encountering the beginnings of what became The Dragon Variation, all the while people around them were dying. They never put it together that it was people originally attached to Hazzard. Much like other digital consciousness, Usir attracted a following. The Saban Jure. A mix of Ex Pacis (who brought about the matrix Crash 2.0) and the Clutch (Hestaby’s Otaku).
Brother Voix is also Nesui Moyo, the Nigerian warboss living in Montreal. But he was also a former agent of Cross Applied Technology who, like KGB after the fall of the red curtain, turned into a gangster. What was never, ever revealed was that he was actually a mole for Saeder-Krupp. Something that tied both stories together, but sadly was never revealed due to lack of time.
How can someone be an expert in something so old that even Dragons don't know how to operate it? Best theories: A) You can't. The Endominels are just part of the fiction of the dreams. (Most Probable, but not very interesting.)
B) You have spent an awful lot of time in archaeology in something that the dragons weren't aware of until recently. (Possible, but unlikely and uninteresting)
C) You are one of, or have been in contact with, the people who built the thing. (Least probable, but most interesting). Hive mind technology. Uploaded consciousness. Perhaps the supposed experts are the first folks in ages to be assimilated into the hive mind, and just like all of the monolith drones, they are playing the role being fed to them. In this case, it is conceivable that even Lofwyr is the unwitting pawn of an outside force.
This wasn’t explored for a reason. Apex asks Lilly the question to get her questioning everything that she’s being told. The Theran aspect was to showcase the history of the Shadowrun/Earthdawn universe, but to also give the feeling that there was lore that Dragons weren’t even sure of. The gates idea was borrowed from Wheel of Time.
Star Gates? The Endominels are a major plot point, in the sense that they are a McGuffin the major players are chasing... but how do they relate to the monoliths and the ichor?
Best Theory: The gates are powered by magical essence siphoned off of awakened metahumans who are kept in a dream state. Why children? They're the easiest prey... also, if aging is slowed (not stopped) while in the vats, you'll get more milage out of a child than an adult.
How do the gates relate to Ousir? ...I got nothing.
The Andomenel was definitely the McGuffin. The theory I had was that there is a lot of similarity between the metaplanes and resonance, so why can’t they intersect at some point. That is the Andomenel. Aliens contacting our matrix from theirs was borrowed from Mona Lisa Overdrive.
Lilly's Parentage This is a particularly tough one, I think. On the one hand, Lilly's parents were already established to be super important people. So it isn't as if she needs to inflate their position to give them clout. On the OTHER hand...
The story as it played out makes Lilly an important person. If the plan for 5,000 years was that Amoniel's daughter would be offered to Lofwyr, it gives the emotional distance between mother and daughter meaning. It isn't Lilly's fault her mother doesn't accept her... it's the machinations of Dragons that broke her family up.
Best theory: Sorry Lilly. You just have a broken home. In fact, you're on this job because of Tailgunner and Nightfall (by way of Voix), not the other way around.
I love the dynamic that Brandi played out with her parents, but in the end I think you’re right. Mommy was a witch and Daddy sacrificed himself to protect her. Typical broken home stuff.
I really enjoyed your take on the story and would really like to continue it.
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Post by KiloGex on Jan 20, 2016 11:15:38 GMT -5
Ep249 - Gear.
I have a player that is a token collector; takes a small bit from many of the big monsters and enemies that they come across. He's taken that to another level and actually used them to craft weapons and useful items from those tokens. I believe it adds another layer to the treasure gathering aspect, where you've now given this otherwise generic item a new and enticing background.
Also the PF class was the Gunslinger. The key to that class and it's firearm though was that it was nearly worthless; it only worked for that specific character and was more fragile than a normal firearm that you would buy. So you could sell it, but you'd really only get it's weight in copper basically.
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Post by revcofe on Feb 22, 2016 19:59:19 GMT -5
After the protracted discussion about Superman snapping necks and in particular the idea that the first time he did it he "broke the seal," the wheels in my mind started turning but I don't have the right setting for the idea, so I'm kicking it back to you guys.
Imagine a world where there was once a god-like paragon of virtue who used to protect the innocent (truth, justice, all that stuff). But after his first reluctant act of violence, he realized how effective it was for restraining evil-doers. Fast forward a few years/decades/centuries and now he is the megalomanical tyrant of the planet. The "big bad."
But you drop the players in without the backstory and over the course of the campaign they gradually learn that the "big bad" was once the ultimate hero. What seems to be almost a caricature of a villain in the beginning grows into a complex and compelling figure over time - maybe even leaving room for redemption or restoration.
Too grandiose for anything I'm playing right now, but maybe something that'd interest you.
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Post by KiloGex on Apr 14, 2016 7:28:43 GMT -5
In regards to the Charisma episode, I'd say that - despite your reviews of the show - Big Bang Theory has a few low CHA but high self worth characters. Off the bat, Sheldon and Wolowitz come to mind; one has no social skills but thinks very highly of himself and feels that everyone wishes to be his acquaintance, while the other has no clue how to deal with women yet insists that he knows just what to do when around them.
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